Defendant-appellant James Saget appeals from a judgment of conviction entered on April 1, 2003 in the United States District Court for the Southern District of New York (Kaplan, J.), following a jury trial. Saget was convicted of one count of conspiracy, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 371, to traffic in firearms in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(1)(A) and to make false statements in connection with firearms trafficking in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(6), as well as one count of firearms trafficking in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 922(a)(1)(A). On appeal, Saget argues that, inter alia, the district court violated his Confrontation Clause rights by allowing the government to introduce into evidence the statements of a separately indicted co-conspirator, Shawn Beckham, who was unavailable to testify at the trial. Saget also argues that the court abused its discretion in determining that Beckham’s statements were admissible under the exception to the hearsay rule for statements against the declarant’s penal interest, see Fed.R.Evid. 804(b)(3). We address these arguments in this opinion and deal with Saget’s other challenges to his conviction in a summary order to be later filed.
We hold that the introduction of Beck-ham’s co-conspirator statements against Saget did not violate the Confrontation
*225
Clause because the statements were not testimonial, and therefore did not implicate the
per se
bar on the introduction of out-of-court testimonial statements, absent a prior opportunity for cross-examination, enunciated by
Crawford v. Washington,
— U.S. —,
BACKGROUND
In June 2002, Saget was indicted for conspiring to traffic in firearms and to make false statements in connection with firearms trafficking, and firearms trafficking. According to the evidence introduced at trial, Saget and his co-conspirator, Shawn Beckham, concocted a scheme in early 2000 to purchase firearms illegally in Pennsylvania and transport them to New York for sale on the black market. Because Saget and Beckham both had criminal records that prohibited them from purchasing firearms, they used straw purchasers — people without criminal records who were paid to make individual gun purchases — to buy guns in Pennsylvania. The straw purchasers were usually, but not always, female exotic dancers. Saget and Beckham would then sell the guns in New York.
In May and June 2001, Beckham engaged in two conversations with a confidential informant (“Cl”), a friend whom Beckham thought was interested in joining the gun-running scheme. During the conversations, Beckham extolled the benefits of the scheme, relaying his and Saget’s gun-running practices, profits, and past exploits in a manner that implicated both himself and Saget. Unbeknownst to Beck-ham, both -conversations were recorded by the Cl. At Saget’s trial,
1
Beckham was unavailable to testify. The government therefore sought to introduce the portions of the taped conversations in which Beck-ham implicated both himself and Saget, arguing that the statements were against Beckham’s penal interest and were admissible under Fed.R.Evid. 804(b)(3). The district court ruled that the statements in which Beckham referred to gun-running activities that he and Saget conducted jointly were admissible as statements against Beckham’s penal interest because they implicated Beckham in a conspiracy with Saget. The court also found that the admission of the statements as substantive evidence of Saget’s participation in the conspiracy did not violate the Confrontation Clause because the statements bore particularized guarantees of trustworthiness required under
Ohio v. Roberts,
Saget now appeals the district court’s ruling that Beckham’s statements were admissible. He argues that the court committed reversible error in failing to exclude the statements on the ground that they contained insufficient indicia of reliability to satisfy the Confrontation Clause as explicated by
Roberts
and
United States v. Matthews,
Subsequent to the filing of this appeal but prior to oral argument, the Supreme Court decided
Crawford,
which substantially alters the Court’s existing Confrontation Clause jurisprudence.
Crawford
holds that no prior testimonial statement made by a declarant who does not testify at the trial may be admitted against a defendant unless the declarant is unavailable to testify and the defendant had a prior opportunity to cross-examine him or her.
Crawford,
— U.S. at —,
DISCUSSION
I. Crawford and Its Effect on Existing Confrontation Clause Jurisprudence
As an initial matter, we must determine how the Confrontation Clause analysis should proceed in light
of Crawford. Crawford
redefines the scope and effect of the Confrontation Clause, substituting a
per se
bar on the admission of out-of-court testimonial statements that were not subject to prior cross-examination for the balancing test that previously delineated the limits of the right to confrontation. This redefinition is premised on the text of the Clause, which states that “[i]n all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right ... to be confronted with the witnesses against him.” U.S. Const, amend. VI. The right of confrontation extends only to witnesses, therefore, and
Crawford
redefines the Court’s Sixth Amendment jurisprudence by holding that the term “witnesses” does not encompass all hearsay declarants.
Crawford,
— U.S. at —,
Until
Crawford
was decided in March 2004, the scope of a defendant’s Confrontation Clause rights was delineated by
Roberts,
which “conditions the admissibility of all hearsay evidence on whether it falls under a firmly rooted hearsay exception or bears particularized guarantees of trustworthiness.”
Id.
at 1369 (internal quotation marks omitted). Any out-of-court statement was constitutionally admissible so long as it fell within an exception to the hearsay rule or, if that exception was not firmly rooted, the court found that the statement was likely to be reliable.
See White v. Illinois,
Crawford
abrogates
Roberts
with respect to prior testimonial statements by holding that such statements may never be introduced against the defendant unless he or she had an opportunity to cross-examine the declarant, regardless of whether that statement falls within a firmly rooted hearsay exception or has particularized guarantees of trustworthiness.
See Crawford,
— U.S. at —, —,
Crawford,
however, leaves somewhat less clear the status of the
Roberts
line of cases insofar as these decisions deal with statements that are not testimonial in nature, however. In discussing the fallibility of the
Roberts
reliability analysis with respect to testimonial statements, the Court leveled several criticisms at the
Roberts
approach that would apply with equal force to its application to nontestimonial statements.
See id.
at 1370 (stating that
Roberts
obscures the fact that the Confrontation Clause prescribes a procedural guarantee that reliability should be determined through cross-examination rather than through other methods);
id.
at 1371 (noting that “[rjeliability is an amorphous, if not entirely subjective, concept” that is subject to judicial manipulation);
id.
at 1373-74 (stating that Roberts’s “open-ended balancing test” may often fail to provide “any meaningful protection”). In light of these perceived flaws in the
Roberts
analysis, at least two Justices — including Justice Scalia, who authored the
Crawford
opinion — would completely overrule
Roberts
and hold that the Confrontation Clause places no limits on the admission of nontestimonial hearsay.
See White,
Despite the criticisms that
Crawford
and the
White
concurrence aim at existing Confrontation Clause jurisprudence,
Crawford
leaves the
Roberts
approach untouched with respect to nontestimonial statements. The
Crawford
Court expressly declined to overrule
White,
in which the majority of the Court considered and rejected a conception of the Confrontation Clause that would restrict the admission of testimonial statements but place no constitutional limits on the admission of out-of-court nontestimonial statements.
See Crawford,
— U.S. at —,
Accordingly, while the continued viability of
Roberts
with respect to nontestimonial statements is somewhat in doubt, we will assume for purposes of this opinion that its reliability analysis continues to apply to control nontestimonial hearsay, and that our precedents applying the
Roberts
analysis to such statements retain their force. This assumption gives effect to the Court’s refusal to overrule
White
while erring on the side of providing more protection to defendants in the absence of a definitive ruling from the Supreme Court. Thus, the analysis of whether the admission of Beckham’s statements violated the Confrontation Clause begins with the question of whether the statements are testimonial, triggering
Crawford’s per se
rule against their admission. If the statements are not testimonial, their admission did not violate the Confrontation Clause so long as the statements fall within a firmly rooted hearsay exception or demonstrate particularized guarantees of trustworthiness.
See Roberts,
*228 II. Testimonial Statements Under Crawford
Crawford
conditions its bar on the admission of prior out-of-court statements that were not subject to cross-examination on whether the statements are “testimonial.” This limitation stems from
Crawford’s
definition of a witness, as that term is used in the Confrontation Clause, as someone who “bear[s] testimony.”
Crawford,
— U.S. at —,
Although the Court declined to “spell out a comprehensive definition of ‘testimonial,’ ” id. at 1374, it provided examples of those statements at the core of the definition, including prior testimony at a preliminary hearing, previous trial, or grand jury proceeding, as well as responses made during police interrogations. See id. at 1364,1374. With respect to the last example, the Court observed that “[a]n accuser who makes a formal statement to government officers bears testimony in a sense that a person who makes a casual remark to an acquaintance does not.” Id. at 1364. Thus, the types of statements cited by the Court as testimonial share certain characteristics; all involve a declarant’s knowing responses to structured questioning in an investigative environment or a courtroom setting where the declarant would reasonably expect that his or her responses might be used in future judicial proceedings. See id. at 1365 n. 4 (stating that declarant’s “recorded statement, knowingly given in response to structured police questioning,” was made in an interrogation setting and was therefore testimonial).
By denominating these types of statements as constituting the “core” of the universe of testimonial statements, the Court left open the possibility that the definition of testimony encompasses a broader range of statements.
See id
at 1371;
see also id.
at 1370 (citing Richard D. Friedman,
Confrontation: The Search for Basic Principles,
86 Geo. L.J. 1011, 1039-43 (1998) (advocating that any statement made by a declarant who “anticipates that the statement will be used in the prosecution or investigation of a crime” be considered testimony)).
But see White,
Crawford
at least suggests that the determinative factor in determining whether a declarant bears testimony is the declar-ant’s awareness or expectation that his or her statements may later be used at a trial. The opinion lists several formula
*229
tions of the types of statements that are included in the core class of testimonial statements, such as “statements that were made under circumstances which would lead an objective witness reasonably to believe that the statement would be available for use at a later trial.”
Crawford,
— U.S. at —,
We need not attempt to articulate a complete definition of testimonial statements in order to hold that Beckham’s statements did not constitute testimony, however, because
Crawford
indicates that the specific type of statements at issue here are nontestimonial in nature. The decision cites
Bourjaily v. United States,
III. Indicia of Reliability Under Roberts
Because Beckham’s statements were not testimonial, the Confrontation Clause does not bar their admission so long as the statements fall within a firmly rooted hearsay exception or contain particularized guarantees of trustworthiness.
See Roberts,
Under our precedents, Beckham’s statements to the Cl were made in circumstances that confer adequate indicia of reliability on the statements. In
United States v. Sasso,
Saget contends, however, that Sasso and Matthews are inapposite here, because Beckham had a motive to exaggerate his statements in order to convince the Cl to join him in selling guns. This argument is unavailing. Although the Cl asked Beck-ham fairly detailed questions about the logistics of the gun-running scheme, he never expressed doubt about the veracity of Beckham’s statements or misgivings about joining the illegal activity. Moreover, those statements that incriminate Sa-get, such as the assertions that Beckham and Saget made a profit on the guns, drove them to New York, and used exotic dancers to buy guns, are factual in nature. *231 Those elements of the statements that Beckham might have exaggerated; such as the amount of money the partners made or the number of guns they purchased at once, are immaterial to Beckham’s central assertion, that he and Saget participated in the gun-running scheme. Establishing Sa-get’s participation in the conspiracy was the principal purpose for which the statements were introduced. We therefore conclude that Beckham’s statements bore sufficiently particularized guarantees of trustworthiness, such that their admission did not violate the Confrontation Clause.
IV. Admissibility Under Rule 804(b)(3)
Saget next argues that several of Beck-ham’s individual statements were not admissible as statements against his penal interest because they were not sufficiently self-inculpatory to implicate Rule 804(b)(3). We review the district court’s determina; tion with respect to the admissibility of the statements under the Federal Rules of Evidence for abuse of discretion.
See Tropearlo,
A statement may be admitted under Rule 804(b)(3)’s hearsay exception for statements against penal interest only if the district court determines that a reasonable person in the declarant’s shoes would perceive the statement as detrimental to his or her own penal interest.
See Williamson v. United States,
CONCLUSION
For the foregoing reasons, the judgment of conviction is AFFIRMED with respect to the introduction of Beckham’s statements as substantive evidence against Saget. A summary order will follow with *232 respect to defendant’s other challenges to his conviction.
Notes
. Beckham was arrested in connection with a gun delivery he arranged with the Cl and was indicted, separately from Saget, on charges of firearms trafficking and conspiracy to traffic in firearms. He pled guilty before Judge Daniels in the Southern District of New York in September 2001.
. Although one of the formulations, taken from Justice Thomas’s concurrence in
White,
. Saget argues that certain of these statements were not self-inculpatory because the meaning ascribed to them by the government was incorrect or speculative. For instance, the government contends that Beckham’s statement that "we drove them down” indicated that Beckham and Saget were driving the guns to New York, but Saget asserts that the government's reading is impermissible because, in light of contemporaneous statements about driving “up” to New York from Philadelphia, Beckham’s use of the word "down” eliminates the possibility that he and Saget had transported the guns northward. The district court did not abuse its discretion in admitting these statements, however, as the government’s interpretations of the statements are facially reasonable. Saget was of course free to argue to the jury that the statements were so ambiguous that they lacked significant probative value.
. To the extent that Saget’s argument is that Beckham's statements were not truly against his interest because Beckham made the statements in an attempt to persuade the Cl to enter into the conspiracy, it is misplaced. Even if the statements were in Beckham’s pecuniary interest, they were clearly self-in-culpatoiy and therefore against his penal interest, as required by Rule 804(b)(3).
