The Winton Shirt Corporation was adjudicated a bankrupt upon an involuntary petition in bankruptcy filed against it upon May 5, 1938. Thereafter, upon May ,18, 1938, an examination into the affairs of the bankrupt was ordered pursuant to the provisions of Section 21a of the Bankruptcy Act, as amended, 11 U.S.C.A. § 44(a), and this examination has proceeded before the referee from time to time. Among the persons examined were officers of Elizabeth Trust Company, the appellee. An examination had theretofore been made into the affairs and business of the appellee by an .examiner for the Banking Department of the State of New Jersey. The trustee in bankruptcy subpoenaed the report of the examiner in the possession of the appellee. A motion was made by the appellee to quash this subpoena and this motion was denied by the court below. Thereafter the examiner of the Banking Department of New Jersey was subpoenaed for examination in the 21a proceedings and was examined in respect to the report which he had made concerning the appellee’s business. The appellee attempted to procure a transcript of this witness’ testimony, first by request, then by formal application to the referee in bankruptcy. The request and application were refused and the testi*mony was impounded by order of the referee. A''petition for review was filed in ‘the District Court and the District Judge upon November 22, 1938, reversing the order of the referee, ordered the referee in .bankruptcy to furnish the transcript of the testimony desired by the appellee, viz., the testimony of the Banking Department’s examiner in the 21a proceeding, to the appel-lee. This is the order appealed from.
It appears that the appellee is a creditor of the bankrupt and that it has filed a claim with the referee in the proceedings in the
Two questions are presented for our determination. The first is whether the appeal is properly before this court, not having been allowed by us. The second question is whether the appellee is entitled to receive the transcript of. the testimony which it has demanded.
In respect to the first question, we state that an examination carried on pursuant to the provisions of Section 21a is part of the administration of the bankrupt’s estate. Such a proceeding is in aid of administration. In re J.A.M.A. Realty Corporation (Willcox v. Goess) 2 Cir.,
By the amendment the troublesome distinction between “controversies” and “proceedings” existing under the prior statute has been eliminated except that it appears that appeals in controversies may be taken only from final orders, decrees or judgments. The final clause of the section above quoted remains however for interpretation.
Many orders, decrees or judgments arising in bankruptcy proceedings directly involve no sum of money whatsoever. An order adjudging an officer of a bankrupt in contempt and decreeing a term of imprisonment is such an order. An ' order directing the appearance of a bankrupt for examination is in the same category. An order granting a discharge or refusing to grant a discharge to a bankrupt cannot be said to involve a sum of money, though such an order necessarily affects the right of creditors to collect debts due to them from the bankrupt. The order sub judice does not involve a discernible sum of money though we can perceive that the failure of the trustee to supply the testimony sought by the appellee may hamper the appellee in the presentation of its defense in the suit which the trustee is bringing against it. That suit may result in a verdict against the appellee in an amount in excess of $500. We conclude that when the amended statute makes use of the word “involves” it does so in the accepted sense in which that word is generally used, viz., to embrace, include or concern directly. It follows therefore that the order appealed from in the case at bar cannot be measured in terms of dollars.
Was it the intention of-the. framers of the amendment to permit appeals as a matter of right from all orders, decrees or judgments (save only as to interlocutory orders, decrees or judgments in controversies arising out of bankruptcy proceedings as distinguished from proceedings therein) in which no sum of money is involved, as well as from all orders, decrees or judgments involving the sum of $500 or more? It may of course be argued with plausibility that an order which does not involve any sum of money cannot involve $500, and that therefore an order not involving money cannot be appealed to this court except upon allowance of an appeal by this court. Such a ruling, however, would prohibit appeals as a matter of right in those cases which were allowed expressly under Section 25 of the Bankruptcy Act,
In the case of Robertson v, Berger,
In our opinion the language just quoted correctly states the law upon this subject. We hold therefore that the appellant was entitled to appeal the order sub judice as a matter of right and that no allowance of the appeal was required.
As to the second question presented for our determination we state that a law suit, in the eye of modern jurisprudence, may no longer be treated as a battle of surprises. A court of bankruptcy must do equity. In the case at bar, as we have stated, a report made to the Banking Department of the State of New Jersey in respect to the business of the appellee was subpoenaed by- the trustee while it was in the possession of the- appellee. The testimony here sought by the appellee is that of the employee of the Banking Department who prepared the report and gave evidence before the referee concerning it.' We think that it would not be equitable to permit the trustee to require the appellee to produce the report by means of a subpoena and not grant to the appellee a right to examine testimony relating to the subr poenaed document.
Moreover, we entertain no doubt that the examination _ of witnesses pursuant to the provisions of section 21(a) of the Bankruptcy Act must take place at a public hearing. Such is the case because the referee in conducting the hearings serves as the court and the processes of the court are available to compel the attendance and testimony of witnesses. Such hearings cannot be conducted in camera. Counsel for interested persons are entitled to examine the proceedings. Under circumstances substantially similar to those of the case at bar, it has been held that a creditor or even the bankrupt himself is entitled to examine the testimony given at hearings as well as books and records in the possession of the trustee. In re Saur, D.C.,
