This case is before us on the Board’s petition seeking enforcement of an order requiring,
inter alia,
that respondents Middleboro Fire Apparatus, Inc. (MFA) bargain with the United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America (the union) as the exclusive representative of MFA’s employees. The order is predicated on the successorship doctrine.
NLRB v. Burns International Security Services, Inc.,
Maxim Industries, Inc. (Maxim) is in the business of building fire fighting vehicles. Until the end of May, 1976, Maxim operated a service department employing fourteen men in a building separate from the main plant. The service department delivered vehicles to purchasers, provided service pursuant to warranties on Maxim products, and did other maintenance work on Maxim and other companies’ products. Mr. Vadala was Maxim’s Director of Service, and Mr. Haskins ran the service department.
The union was the exclusive bargaining representative of Maxim’s employees, including those in the service department. In February of 1976, attempting to cope with financial difficulties, Maxim asked the union to sign a five year contract and to eliminate the service department from the *7 bargaining unit. The union rejected the proposal. Finally Maxim decided to close down the service department effective May 19, 1976.
On May 20 Yadala, as sole stockholder, incorporated MFA. That same day MFA entered into service agreements with Maxim and another company in the industry obligating MFA to do repair, maintenance, and warranty work for the two manufacturers who, in turn, agreed to provide MFA two road service trucks and uniforms for road servicemen; to reimburse MFA for road service expenses; to supply to MFA parts and supplies at prices and terms established by the manufacturers; to pay MFA at rates prescribed in the agreement; and to make collections from MFA’s customers. Also on May 20 MFA agreed with Maxim to lease the building that had housed Maxim’s service department and to buy three vehicles from Maxim. 2 Maxim agreed to cover up to 15 MFA employees through December 31, 1976, in its existing group health plan, to maintain the existing garage owners liability policy until its expiration, to make cash advances to MFA, and to give MFA an option to purchase items in the service department inventory. 3
Between May 19 and June 1, when MFA began operations, Yadala and Haskins, working as MFA’s vice president, met with the Maxim service department employees. Yadala offered each one a job with MFA and explained that the options were to “bump” into the main Maxim plant or to take voluntary lay-off status. Many of the employees asked what the status of the union would be at MFA. To those who asked, Vadala responded that he had no obligation to bargain with any union. Seven Maxim workers accepted the offer, and they formed MFA’s initial work force. Later MFA hired two people who had worked for Maxim and belonged to the union at an earlier period and one who had never been connected with Maxim.
The union first asserted their right to bargain on behalf of MFA’s employees at a meeting with Vadala on May 20. Vadala responded that he did not believe he had any obligation to negotiate with the union. He added during a phone conversation later that day that he would check with a lawyer and would negotiate if he had to. On May 22 the union wrote Vadala requesting bargaining. Vadala, answering on May 25, stated that Maxim had dissolved and that MFA had no connection with Maxim. The union sent a second letter on June 1. On June 8 the union asked Vadala why there had been no response. Vadala explained that he had not received the letter and reiterated that he had a right to start a business without being compelled to negotiate. At this confrontation on June 8 Vadala apparently first suggested that he doubted the union had a majority at MFA. 4 A third letter was hand delivered to Vadala that afternoon. A fourth letter, requesting information about MFA’s officers, directors, and stockholders, was sent June 24. Vadala never responded to the letters of June 8 or June 24.
We conclude that MFA’s business is essentially the same as the business of the Maxim service department. As the ALJ wrote:
“Respondent undertook to perform the same services, utilizing former Maxim supervisors, on the same premises leased from Maxim, with the same employees, exercising the same skills and using the same type of tools and equipment, for the *8 same market of customers, with virtually no hiatus in their employment.”
MFA does more .“refurbishing”
5
than Maxim did and is trying to expand into manufacturing firetrucks which the Maxim service department did not do, but these projects continue to use essentially the same skills and tools, albeit, perhaps, in a more creative manner. As the ALJ found, “activities of this nature are the normal concomitants of a new management and a new approach to a failing business, not a break in the continuity of the employing industry.” Here, as in
Band-Age,
the successor “is reaping the advantages of continuity”
6
which helps justify according protection to “the employees’ interest in some stability of representation during a period of volatility.”
Band-Age, supra,
MFA points to the extreme reduction in workforce from the approximately 100 workers at Maxim to the 10 at MFA. Reduction in size is relevant, but by no means determinative.
Id.
MFA would distinguish
Band-Age
because there the predecessor employer ceased operations entirely, and the entire business shrank; whereas Maxim continues in existence and the successor is replacing only a portion of the former bargaining unit. The successor in
Ranch-Way, Inc. v. NLRB,
Furthermore, this case is distinguishable from
International Ass’n of Machinists and Aerospace Workers v. NLRB,
We turn now to the more difficult question whether MFA, as a successor employer, reasonably entertained a good faith doubt that the union continued to represent a majority of MFA employees. MFA would base its doubts on statements by the employees during the discussions in May of 1976. Certainly an employee’s statement can form the basis for the employer’s doubt
*9
as to that employee.
Zim’s Foodliner, Inc. v. NLRB,
This being so, MFA is able to make an appealing argument. Between May 19 and June 1 Vadala interviewed 6 of the 7 Maxim employees who opted to work for MFA. Some of the interviews were with individuals, some with groups. Vadala saw some several times. His testimony was that all or nearly all initiated discussion of union recognition by MFA and that when he replied that he had no obligation to bargain, each expressed some degree of satisfaction with Vadala’s position or some degree of dissatisfaction with the union. MFA argues that such a sequence of statements, together with the option available to the employees to bump into the main plant and the close personal relationship between the employees and Vadala (with some discussions even taking place in a bar and at Vadala’s home), were sufficient to rebut any presumption of continuing support for the union as bargaining representative.
This did not persuade the ALJ and Board who concluded that “[sjtatements made by employees during the course of an interview with a prospective employer that they approve of his unqualified position that he has no contract and is not obligated to bargain with the Union claiming to represent them are not voluntary, uncoerced expressions of employee sentiment upon which their employer can rely in asserting a good faith doubt of an incumbent union’s majority status. So far. as this record shows none of the Respondent’s employees have withdrawn from the Union and all who were members of the Union have remained members in good standing.” 8
We have considerable sympathy for MFA, for if an employer does not establish a reasonable good faith doubt when a majority of his employees express their disaffection with the union, it may be asked when if ever he could do so. So put, the invited answer is almost irresistible. But not quite.
We may well feel that we would not have concluded on this record as did the Board. But we may not reverse unless we deem this a case of arbitrariness, irrationality, or abuse of judgment. This is, we conclude, a case where the Board’s seasoned feel for the meaning of events in a labor-management setting must be allowed some scope.
See Universal Camera Corp. v. NLRB,
We therefore hold that the Board’s decision that Vadala lacked the requisite good faith doubt was rational and supported by substantial evidence.
The order of the Board is enforced.
Notes
. The Board made a point of saying that the correct standard should be “reasonable doubt based on objective circumstances”. We are not sure that that standard is any different from the one articulated in the text. That the doubt must be reasonable lends an objective aspect to the test. A good faith doubt cannot arise solely from the employer’s intuition.
J. Ray McDermott & Co., Inc. v. NLRB,
. “The fact that the transfer took the form of a lease rather than an outright sale is not of great significance for purposes of determining the rights and obligations under the Act.”
NLRB v. Band-Age, Inc.,
. As of the hearing before the ALJ in March of 1977, MFA had purchased about $8,000 of about $200,000 worth of inventory.
. Vadala testified that he expressed his doubts during the phone call on May 20. The union representative had no such recollection, and the ALJ apparently credited the union’s version. The date of assertion is not important in this case, however, because neither the ALJ nor the Board relied on untimely assertion as a reason for rejecting MFA’s defense. We reject the Board’s effort in its brief to rely on belated assertions of doubt as an alternative basis for affirmance.
. “Refurbishing” apparently implies extensive overhauling and differs from “servicing” or “repairing” mainly in the amount of work done on a particular vehicle rather than in the types of work done.
. Evidence of the advantage reaped is the relationship between MFA and the manufacturers as established by the agreements signed on May 20. To quote the ALJ:
“Provisions of this nature are not common between independent business men, dealing at arms-length. Here the Companies retained control over prices, labor rates, billings, and collections. With such control the Companies had the power to determine Respondent’s success or failure. It is clear, however, that the Companies opted for Respondent’s success, not failure. Respondent and its employees were the beneficiaries of Maxim’s continued application of the health provisions of its collective bargaining agreement with the Union until December 31. Moreover, and most significantly Maxim advanced Respondent sufficient working capital to assure Respondent an opportunity to succeed in its business venture.”
. There is broad language in
Cornell
suggesting that “employee assertions” may not be reliable standing alone.
See, e. g.,
. This conclusion, with its general language, reads like a conclusion of law. If it were so intended, it would be wrong for the reasons explained in the text. Ordinarily in such a case we would feel compelled to remand for the Board to make a finding of fact under the correct standard of law. We do not think that final decision should be further delayed here, however, since the conjunction of several detailed circumstances listed in the ALJ’s conclusion enables us, with some straining, to treat it as a factual finding. Obviously this kind of problem is one easily avoided by more careful expression.
. The record discloses no attempt on the part of any of MFA’s employees to de-certify the union by seeking a new election. 29 U.S.C. § 159(e)(1).
